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welcome to the next in our webinar

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series uh this one is how did

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macromolecules gain function and uh well

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on my notes it was going to be lauren

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and irene but we now have a cast of

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thousands who might present at any

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moment which is uh which is wonderful

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um just a couple of admin points to deal

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with uh there is a link in the event for

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for this webinar to the slides however

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because the science is moving forward so

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quickly uh these slides are now out of

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date but in the next 10 minutes or so an

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even newer version of slides will be up

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there

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um

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so uh so just give me a moment and we'll

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update that um secondly we had a

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question the other day from one of the

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participants asking where they could

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find the link to the previous uh

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recorded webinars so just to clarify

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that in the events section if you click

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on more events and then go back through

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the list

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each of the events at the bottom of it

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when you click on them should be a link

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to the youtube version of that

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and then finally the fact that we have

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recordings of previous events should be

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your clue that this is a recorded event

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and everything that you say and type

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will be visible on the internet

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hi everybody um i'm lauren williams

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and uh

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sitting on my left here is uh nick hud

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uh we're both from georgia tech and then

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uh hopefully you can see irene chen who

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is at uc santa barbara

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and um

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basically our task here is

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to help develop the

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nasa astrobiology roadmap um we're

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trying to work out

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um a document our part of a document

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that will help guide us and other

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researchers and nasa into thinking

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uh

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intelligently and funding intelligently

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science related to the

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origin of life

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so our

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small task here is to think about how

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did macromolecules gain function

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and what i've started here with here is

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just a picture of the ribosome which is

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a functional assembly and also thought

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to be one of the oldest assemblies in

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biology so in a really basic way we

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could say where did this come from how

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did these

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large

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polymers

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um

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where do they come from and how they how

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do they become functional and i thought

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it might be

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good

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probably because i'm just a reductionist

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by nature is to to start thinking

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really carefully about what we mean by

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function what does it mean um

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to

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actually before i i get very far i want

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to talk about tomorrow's

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webinar there's a there's a hopefully

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most of you know about this already but

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there is a webinar tomorrow um which is

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very closely related in fact it's almost

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integrated with the one we have today

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um which is

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being conducted by uh julian burkhart

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and um it's gonna be the same time same

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place and that was

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where how did peptide meet nucleotide

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which is

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similar if you think about it too how

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did macromolecules gain function

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um it's closely related so hopefully

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those of you here can

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also make it to that seminar or that

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webinar too

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okay so what i want to do is talk a

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little bit about function i mean i'm

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going to talk about function

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how i would like to think about function

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and then actually nick is going to talk

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about what he thinks about function that

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irene is going to talk about a little

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bit about

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so what we're going to really do is

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start by saying what do we mean by

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function when we say when we ask how

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uh macromolecules

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achieve function

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and um so this is the list of us

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some of us who have been working on this

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document

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i probably need to add more people to

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this and of course everyone's welcome we

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want

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the more people we have contribute to

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this effort the better it will be so if

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you haven't actually actively started

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uh working with us on this you know and

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you're interested please please join us

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um okay so i want to talk about function

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from

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trypsin

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function it catalyzes a chemical

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transformation

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and so when we talk about trypsin having

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function

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we say number one it folds into

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three-dimensional structure so that

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that's part of trypsin function it binds

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to a specific substrate

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it stabilizes transition states and

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intermediates and it is regulated so i

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think in modern biology we can kind of

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probably agree we know what function is

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um

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it has to do

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either either if we're talking about

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proteins it has to do with you know

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catalysis and and folding and

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and that activity or if we're talking

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about genes it has to do with sequences

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that contain information

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so so i think it's pretty easy when we

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look at modern biology for us to think

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about function but when we think about

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ancient biology or even

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maybe before biology you know

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about process what does function mean

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when we're talking about

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abiotic systems or early

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biotic systems and so

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um

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if we think about that in terms of

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trypsin we can break that down to say

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what is three-dimensional structure and

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that that's basically self-assembly i

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mean trypsin achieves its

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three-dimensional structure by

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self-assembly and then it binds to

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specific substrates by

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assembly between protein and substrate

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it stabilizes transition states and

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intermediates and that has to do with

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assembly between the protein and

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transition states and intermediates and

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then its regulation also has to do with

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assembly

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so i think my thought

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is um people are having a hard time

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logging on i'm seeing that

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anyway i guess somebody's working on

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i'm ironing

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so okay i'll just proceed with this so

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anyway when i when i think about

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function on a really detailed molecular

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level

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uh

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as a reductionist i guess um i'm

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thinking about assembly molecules

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um with

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complementary arrays of

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molecular interactions as in dna

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um

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base pairing or in protein

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beta sheet assembly

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you know those kind of

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really beautiful arrays of complementary

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functional groups that can interact

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so in one sense we can define biology

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as an extremely elaborate

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system of assembly and assembly so when

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you hard boil an egg basically

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you're just you're just destroying all

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of that assembly that's why you can

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never unboil the egg and that's why it

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turns white basically it all has to do

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with assembly

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so

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now i want to just project that back

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and think about

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an abiotic system so we could think

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about

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the ancient earth we could just some

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abiotic system i think most of us here

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will agree that

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uh

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abiotic systems can generate organic

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molecules small organic molecules

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there's just a lot of evidence that that

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can happen

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and so this is my schematic of a

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collection of organic molecules i only

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have two

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but it could be more it could be one

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it's not really that important it's we

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have some totally abiotic system that

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that generates uh small molecules and

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those small molecules can self-assemble

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some of them

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or maybe they it's not self-assembly

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maybe it's assembly between molecules

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but anyway

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uh

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i think it's it's clear that um

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that

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organic molecules can be generated in

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abiotic systems and

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and some of those molecules are

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certainly capable of

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and

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the interesting thing is that assembled

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have different properties than

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unassembled molecules we know that

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they're basically more stable to

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chemical degradation enzymatic

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degradation

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irradiation basically once a molecule is

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assembled

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it lives longer than a than a molecule

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that is not assembled

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and so i would

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i would suggest that this is kind of the

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kickstart of evolution you could have a

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system where you really don't have

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catalysis you don't have polymers you

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don't have darwinian evolution but you

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you would have

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you could easily have self-assembling

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molecules and then the populations of

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molecules are going to be shifted

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depending on the assembly process

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and so uh to me this is this is sort of

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i would say would be the kickstart of

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evolution is that assembly can come very

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early and it's not all that hard to get

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um and

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i think if we

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and this is not just an esoteric

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unanswerable question we could look at

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titan for example and my prediction

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would be

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that

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evolution has already kick-started on

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titan we know we have rich organic

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chemistry we even have polymers on titan

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and uh

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ultimately when we can

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when we can find out a lot about titan

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nasa has to

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to uh

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to to do the assays to get the

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instrumentation there but the prediction

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would be that there are self-assembling

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molecules on titan and that the the

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molecular populations are preserved are

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perturbed by that assembly basically

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that that's

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that there's an enrichment of um

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assembly molecules on titan there's

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there's dunes of

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organic material on titan and there's

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these lakes are saturated with probably

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with these hydrocarbon lakes are

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saturated and we have uh photochemistry

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so we have we have synthesis and

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degradation we have all of that going on

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so this this would be a really i think

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uh

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an excellent sort of abiotic system to

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basically say is

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not not to suggest maybe that we have

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darwinian evolution going on there but

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00:10:47,829 --> 00:10:44,000
uh

291
00:10:55,910 --> 00:10:47,839
of

292
00:10:58,630 --> 00:10:55,920
molecules

293
00:11:00,630 --> 00:10:58,640
so that's it that's a minimalist

294
00:11:02,710 --> 00:11:00,640
and uh if anybody has any comments

295
00:11:04,230 --> 00:11:02,720
that's a minimalist uh

296
00:11:06,069 --> 00:11:04,240
just

297
00:11:07,750 --> 00:11:06,079
is it possible to butt in here i wasn't

298
00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:07,760
sure if uh

299
00:11:12,389 --> 00:11:10,000
yeah that's what we're after

300
00:11:13,190 --> 00:11:12,399
okay yeah james lines uh asu

301
00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:13,200
uh

302
00:11:19,750 --> 00:11:17,200
just your your titan analogy most mostly

303
00:11:21,509 --> 00:11:19,760
what you're doing on titan is creating

304
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:21,519
aerosols

305
00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:23,279
you know particulates in the atmosphere

306
00:11:27,430 --> 00:11:24,800
and those are settling under the surface

307
00:11:30,389 --> 00:11:27,440
so your chemistry is really going to be

308
00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:30,399
i think dictated a lot by those particle

309
00:11:35,269 --> 00:11:32,800
surfaces

310
00:11:39,829 --> 00:11:35,279
well yes that's what i did right surface

311
00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:43,030
or in the atmosphere of titan so

312
00:11:50,069 --> 00:11:45,680
yeah i mean my understanding from i was

313
00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:50,079
just out at the icy worlds group uh at

314
00:11:53,430 --> 00:11:51,600
um

315
00:11:56,389 --> 00:11:53,440
jpl and they were

316
00:11:59,030 --> 00:11:56,399
you know looking at saturated solutions

317
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:59,040
of hydrocarbons mimicking these lakes

318
00:12:01,750 --> 00:11:59,839
and

319
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:01,760
at least the information i had from them

320
00:12:04,949 --> 00:12:03,440
that

321
00:12:06,230 --> 00:12:04,959
there were

322
00:12:08,870 --> 00:12:06,240
probably

323
00:12:10,870 --> 00:12:08,880
high concentrations of

324
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:10,880
organics of some kind exactly i don't

325
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:11,760
think

326
00:12:15,030 --> 00:12:13,519
um in the lake

327
00:12:17,269 --> 00:12:15,040
so

328
00:12:19,350 --> 00:12:17,279
um

329
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:19,360
that was sort of my basis for saying

330
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:21,040
that

331
00:12:25,190 --> 00:12:22,959
okay

332
00:12:26,550 --> 00:12:25,200
but we can talk about that

333
00:12:27,670 --> 00:12:26,560
all right so anyway that's kind of a

334
00:12:28,949 --> 00:12:27,680
minimal

335
00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:28,959
you want to see if there's any questions

336
00:12:32,150 --> 00:12:30,560
for you yeah are there questions on that

337
00:12:33,829 --> 00:12:32,160
um because we're gonna have change and

338
00:12:35,590 --> 00:12:33,839
nick is gonna talk a little bit about

339
00:12:37,110 --> 00:12:35,600
sort of a higher level definition of

340
00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:37,120
assembly

341
00:12:43,670 --> 00:12:39,680
um

342
00:12:46,310 --> 00:12:44,790
okay

343
00:12:48,949 --> 00:12:46,320
i'm saying

344
00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:50,069
okay so

345
00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:51,760
lauren asked you know how would i

346
00:12:55,590 --> 00:12:53,680
address this question about this

347
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:55,600
emergence of function

348
00:12:58,389 --> 00:12:56,720
and

349
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:58,399
i i've been thinking about this a while

350
00:13:03,910 --> 00:13:00,959
and and with sarah walker i was a

351
00:13:06,470 --> 00:13:03,920
postdoc with us for a year you might

352
00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:06,480
know her we we worked on a simulation

353
00:13:09,670 --> 00:13:08,720
and i'm just gonna go through

354
00:13:12,150 --> 00:13:09,680
um

355
00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:12,160
just a few slices show you what we're

356
00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:14,480
thinking but it's more of a backdrop of

357
00:13:17,990 --> 00:13:15,760
what i think are some of the big

358
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:18,000
questions here and and i start off with

359
00:13:23,990 --> 00:13:22,079
this slide um which is uh showing

360
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:24,000
that uh you know

361
00:13:30,470 --> 00:13:27,120
we're expecting that we have polymers

362
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:30,480
and monomers and that these go together

363
00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:32,639
uh to either make more polymers or

364
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:34,560
somehow they're templating to replicate

365
00:13:37,509 --> 00:13:36,320
themselves and i think that this

366
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:37,519
captures

367
00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:39,440
the type of system that lauren is

368
00:13:43,430 --> 00:13:41,040
talking about you know when he talks

369
00:13:45,750 --> 00:13:43,440
about functional systems lauren's saying

370
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:45,760
the minimal functional system you have

371
00:13:48,949 --> 00:13:47,519
is that you have to have recognition you

372
00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:48,959
have to have assembly you have to have

373
00:13:52,389 --> 00:13:50,000
folding

374
00:13:54,790 --> 00:13:52,399
and i i agree with him about that but

375
00:13:56,230 --> 00:13:54,800
what i also countered to him was that i

376
00:13:57,590 --> 00:13:56,240
think that when a lot of people think

377
00:13:59,430 --> 00:13:57,600
about function

378
00:14:01,829 --> 00:13:59,440
they think about the emergence of

379
00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:01,839
sequences that can do something right

380
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:03,920
beyond just what the polymer you know

381
00:14:09,269 --> 00:14:07,600
intrinsically does like you know form a

382
00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:09,279
stable structure

383
00:14:12,470 --> 00:14:11,199
and so i think when we think of a

384
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:12,480
function

385
00:14:19,350 --> 00:14:15,120
we have to come up with models for for

386
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:19,360
how do we say generate molecules um with

387
00:14:21,350 --> 00:14:20,320
or

388
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:21,360
how do we

389
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:23,680
favor molecules that have sequences that

390
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:25,600
can catalyze reaction

391
00:14:29,350 --> 00:14:26,639
and so

392
00:14:32,790 --> 00:14:29,360
what we did was we looked at a model

393
00:14:35,910 --> 00:14:32,800
where we have polymers down on a surface

394
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,920
in a 2d and they diffuse around

395
00:14:38,870 --> 00:14:37,680
and then we have monomers that can move

396
00:14:40,949 --> 00:14:38,880
around too

397
00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:40,959
and they're polymerizing

398
00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:43,040
go to the next slide

399
00:14:46,790 --> 00:14:44,880
and just you know show you some of the

400
00:14:50,710 --> 00:14:46,800
things that we see come out of these

401
00:14:52,790 --> 00:14:50,720
that i think uh give us an idea about

402
00:14:54,710 --> 00:14:52,800
what is possible and also what we're

403
00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:54,720
going for

404
00:14:59,509 --> 00:14:56,639
if you have a system of monomers that

405
00:15:02,069 --> 00:14:59,519
can spontaneously polymerize and

406
00:15:03,590 --> 00:15:02,079
replicate

407
00:15:06,230 --> 00:15:03,600
then what you're going to do is very

408
00:15:08,710 --> 00:15:06,240
quickly you run out of resources and you

409
00:15:11,670 --> 00:15:08,720
reach a steady state level of the number

410
00:15:12,870 --> 00:15:11,680
of polymers that can be supported by the

411
00:15:14,230 --> 00:15:12,880
system

412
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:14,240
and then it becomes limiting in the

413
00:15:18,870 --> 00:15:16,320
number of monomers that you have

414
00:15:21,990 --> 00:15:18,880
and if you consider that there could be

415
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:22,000
lots of sequences out there

416
00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:24,240
then

417
00:15:28,389 --> 00:15:26,320
but none of them are functional to start

418
00:15:31,829 --> 00:15:28,399
with then nobody has a selective

419
00:15:35,269 --> 00:15:31,839
advantage and sequences stochastically

420
00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:35,279
can come and die off and live on and

421
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:37,279
some will build up and if you look at

422
00:15:41,189 --> 00:15:39,680
this down here on the two-dimensional

423
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:41,199
grid here

424
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:43,360
because we have limited diffusion what

425
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:45,600
happens is that you get colonies of

426
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:48,959
polymers that are building up and over

427
00:15:55,749 --> 00:15:52,000
the number of cycles now there's no

428
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:55,759
functionality in these beyond what

429
00:15:59,749 --> 00:15:57,920
lauren had said lauren had said that

430
00:16:02,470 --> 00:15:59,759
monomers that can recognize each other

431
00:16:03,749 --> 00:16:02,480
come together so that that is implied in

432
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:03,759
this that we have that level of

433
00:16:07,189 --> 00:16:05,440
functionality

434
00:16:10,629 --> 00:16:07,199
but what then we did

435
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:10,639
was we said what if a sequence comes

436
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:13,680
along and we call this an enzyme and the

437
00:16:18,710 --> 00:16:16,240
idea is that there are monomers that are

438
00:16:21,189 --> 00:16:18,720
a and b that pair together and the idea

439
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:21,199
is that if you have this polymer that

440
00:16:25,990 --> 00:16:24,639
can generate a monomer that's in short

441
00:16:28,629 --> 00:16:26,000
supply

442
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:28,639
we said in a system like this

443
00:16:32,550 --> 00:16:30,720
does that polymer have a selective

444
00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:32,560
advantage and the answer is absolutely

445
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:35,360
yes over a wide range of parameters

446
00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:37,360
which i i won't go into but these have

447
00:16:41,269 --> 00:16:38,240
to do

448
00:16:43,430 --> 00:16:41,279
um with the lifetime of these polymers

449
00:16:45,509 --> 00:16:43,440
in in the system

450
00:16:47,990 --> 00:16:45,519
and the the rate at which they the

451
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:48,000
monomers move around if using that what

452
00:16:52,710 --> 00:16:49,600
we're seeing is that

453
00:16:56,389 --> 00:16:52,720
a polymer that has a function

454
00:16:58,790 --> 00:16:56,399
has a much longer average lifetime

455
00:16:59,590 --> 00:16:58,800
than just random sequences in the mix

456
00:17:01,350 --> 00:16:59,600
even though these aren't

457
00:17:02,949 --> 00:17:01,360
compartmentalized there's just limited

458
00:17:03,670 --> 00:17:02,959
diffusion

459
00:17:07,029 --> 00:17:03,680
and

460
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:07,039
the population the number of polymers uh

461
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:08,559
that that

462
00:17:13,750 --> 00:17:11,199
um our steady state that have a function

463
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:13,760
versus those that don't is also much

464
00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:15,360
higher on average

465
00:17:19,350 --> 00:17:17,360
and so you know just to look at this in

466
00:17:21,110 --> 00:17:19,360
a in a spatial map

467
00:17:23,909 --> 00:17:21,120
what you see is that

468
00:17:27,510 --> 00:17:23,919
what we what we have here is

469
00:17:30,789 --> 00:17:29,029
we have a

470
00:17:33,029 --> 00:17:30,799
on the green line here is this if you

471
00:17:34,870 --> 00:17:33,039
have no functional sequence you you go

472
00:17:36,230 --> 00:17:34,880
up and you reach a steady state level

473
00:17:37,990 --> 00:17:36,240
and then forever you have the same

474
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:38,000
number of polymers

475
00:17:42,950 --> 00:17:41,039
um if at this point right here along

476
00:17:44,789 --> 00:17:42,960
comes a functional polymer that can

477
00:17:48,710 --> 00:17:44,799
generate a monomer in short in short

478
00:17:51,029 --> 00:17:48,720
supply then the whole population overall

479
00:17:53,350 --> 00:17:51,039
benefits from that until the other

480
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:53,360
monomer is in short supply and then you

481
00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:55,840
can do a scenario where a sequence comes

482
00:18:00,710 --> 00:17:57,679
along where the other monomer that's in

483
00:18:02,789 --> 00:18:00,720
short supply is catalyzed by some

484
00:18:05,430 --> 00:18:02,799
functional polymer and then everybody

485
00:18:08,070 --> 00:18:05,440
builds up in their populations so the

486
00:18:10,230 --> 00:18:08,080
reason that i i bring this up is that i

487
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:10,240
i think that

488
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:11,760
what we need to

489
00:18:19,029 --> 00:18:17,830
in looking at functionality emerging in

490
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:19,039
polymers

491
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:22,480
is a very wide range of functions have

492
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:24,000
to

493
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:26,080
get their foothold

494
00:18:31,430 --> 00:18:28,880
in order for life to really come about

495
00:18:32,870 --> 00:18:31,440
but what lauren's talking about is fine

496
00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:32,880
with respect to

497
00:18:37,590 --> 00:18:35,120
what are the basic building blocks that

498
00:18:39,909 --> 00:18:37,600
you need um

499
00:18:41,590 --> 00:18:39,919
you know you you need building blocks

500
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:41,600
that can recognize each other packed

501
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:44,400
together well that can form a backbone

502
00:18:49,350 --> 00:18:46,880
that can fold and that and so we right

503
00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:49,360
away if we think peptides fit the bill

504
00:18:54,789 --> 00:18:52,000
nucleic acids fit the bill that's great

505
00:18:57,510 --> 00:18:54,799
but but then we have to select sequence

506
00:18:59,430 --> 00:18:57,520
from there and we have to select a lot

507
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:59,440
of sequences you know what i think is

508
00:19:02,230 --> 00:19:00,640
that we have to

509
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:02,240
have

510
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:05,360
life before we even get to say cellular

511
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:06,720
life it depends on your model of when

512
00:19:10,549 --> 00:19:08,640
you want compartmentalization

513
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:10,559
but before you have something at the

514
00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:13,760
level say of the ribosome i think still

515
00:19:17,430 --> 00:19:15,200
there would have been a lot of enzymes

516
00:19:19,830 --> 00:19:17,440
that came first that were

517
00:19:20,950 --> 00:19:19,840
selected out of um

518
00:19:23,990 --> 00:19:20,960
of

519
00:19:24,710 --> 00:19:24,000
maybe non-templated polymers right ones

520
00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:24,720
that

521
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:28,400
folded and were stable but still were um

522
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:30,320
doing something that was good for them

523
00:19:36,310 --> 00:19:32,880
or their environment and so you know

524
00:19:38,310 --> 00:19:36,320
what what i see is a need is to

525
00:19:40,230 --> 00:19:38,320
especially experimentally demonstrate

526
00:19:42,150 --> 00:19:40,240
that this is the case i think you know

527
00:19:44,310 --> 00:19:42,160
there's a lot of focus that's been on

528
00:19:45,590 --> 00:19:44,320
getting a replicator and that and that's

529
00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:45,600
good but

530
00:19:51,270 --> 00:19:47,840
we need to be thinking about

531
00:19:53,110 --> 00:19:51,280
the systems that would allow

532
00:19:55,510 --> 00:19:53,120
many different functions to take

533
00:19:56,390 --> 00:19:55,520
foothold uh take hold in the soup and

534
00:20:01,990 --> 00:19:56,400
this is

535
00:20:04,789 --> 00:20:02,000
from the top down work uh of carl woes

536
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:04,799
and what woe says is that you know when

537
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:06,880
he looks back at the evolution of the

538
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:07,679
cell

539
00:20:11,430 --> 00:20:09,840
based upon his genetic analysis he comes

540
00:20:13,150 --> 00:20:11,440
with a conclusion

541
00:20:15,990 --> 00:20:13,160
that there must have been many

542
00:20:17,590 --> 00:20:16,000
cooperating polymers because there were

543
00:20:19,750 --> 00:20:17,600
so many problems that needed to be

544
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:19,760
solved and so you know in my mind when

545
00:20:24,150 --> 00:20:21,679
we're looking at function coming out of

546
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:24,160
these polymers we have to in the

547
00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:25,919
earliest stages of life we have to look

548
00:20:32,230 --> 00:20:28,720
for a system that would allow

549
00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:32,240
right the coexistence the

550
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:36,400
non-selfish say cooperation uh of many

551
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:39,039
functional polymers

552
00:20:45,909 --> 00:20:43,120
so that's that's my stick on that okay

553
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:45,919
and then um yeah if people want to weigh

554
00:20:51,430 --> 00:20:48,480
in and uh irene

555
00:20:52,549 --> 00:20:51,440
has has some ideas on this also i

556
00:20:54,390 --> 00:20:52,559
believe

557
00:20:56,950 --> 00:20:54,400
okay yeah does anybody want to say

558
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:56,960
anything uh or comments i know well i i

559
00:21:01,990 --> 00:20:59,679
just one one quick question uh nick what

560
00:21:03,590 --> 00:21:02,000
were those the azine b enzyme were those

561
00:21:04,870 --> 00:21:03,600
actual experimental results what were

562
00:21:07,190 --> 00:21:04,880
you showing there no i don't know these

563
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:07,200
are simulations these are you know the

564
00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:08,880
idea of that

565
00:21:13,590 --> 00:21:10,960
okay yeah it's all computer simulations

566
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:13,600
and that that's my idea

567
00:21:17,430 --> 00:21:15,120
yeah i think what we really got to go

568
00:21:20,070 --> 00:21:17,440
for is a push for experimental systems

569
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:20,080
that can demonstrate emergency

570
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:22,080
coexistence on multiple functions i

571
00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:28,549
nick do you do you want to pick up um i

572
00:21:33,870 --> 00:21:32,080
think david had made a point uh about

573
00:21:36,070 --> 00:21:33,880
assembly being downhill and the

574
00:21:37,909 --> 00:21:36,080
thermodynamics oh yeah

575
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:37,919
yeah so david ross wrote in there should

576
00:21:42,630 --> 00:21:39,840
we not be considering the thermodynamics

577
00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:42,640
of assembly oh absolutely

578
00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:44,320
that's something lauren and i are are

579
00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:46,080
both big fans of

580
00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:46,960
um

581
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:48,720
you know how do you get those polymers

582
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:50,880
to start with and

583
00:21:55,190 --> 00:21:53,280
um i i think that uh

584
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:55,200
you know having a thermodynamically

585
00:22:00,310 --> 00:21:58,000
favorite assembly is is you know

586
00:22:02,789 --> 00:22:00,320
superior to one that you know you have

587
00:22:05,510 --> 00:22:02,799
to rely upon kinetics of activation

588
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:05,520
polymerization um because in the

589
00:22:09,070 --> 00:22:07,520
beginning it's got to be really simple

590
00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:09,080
and so if you have something that's

591
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:11,600
thermodynamically favored

592
00:22:15,830 --> 00:22:14,080
then you can you know have the system

593
00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:15,840
run for a long time and then the

594
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:17,760
formation of your polymers would be more

595
00:22:22,789 --> 00:22:20,559
akin to say crystallization right rather

596
00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:22,799
than radical polymerization and i think

597
00:22:26,950 --> 00:22:24,720
that's important and what's also really

598
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:26,960
important about thermodynamics of

599
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:28,720
assembly that goes along with what

600
00:22:33,909 --> 00:22:30,240
lauren's talking about

601
00:22:36,310 --> 00:22:33,919
in in making stable structures

602
00:22:38,070 --> 00:22:36,320
you want to find the energetically

603
00:22:40,789 --> 00:22:38,080
favored structure and you'd like that to

604
00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:40,799
be something that say is is folded and

605
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:42,880
has lots of interactions

606
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:43,919
and so

607
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:46,240
then having say backbone chemistries

608
00:22:50,630 --> 00:22:48,240
that are thermodynamically favored at

609
00:22:52,870 --> 00:22:50,640
least in some parts of a cycle

610
00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:52,880
is to me that the most direct way that

611
00:22:57,909 --> 00:22:54,799
you will get to a solution to this

612
00:23:00,149 --> 00:22:57,919
problem before you have all the complex

613
00:23:01,510 --> 00:23:00,159
machinery that we know now is in the

614
00:23:03,270 --> 00:23:01,520
cell

615
00:23:04,230 --> 00:23:03,280
yeah sort of on a big question i would

616
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:04,240
say

617
00:23:07,190 --> 00:23:06,400
in fact in this document is possibly one

618
00:23:09,510 --> 00:23:07,200
of the

619
00:23:11,830 --> 00:23:09,520
issues we could

620
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:11,840
could treat is is the issue of

621
00:23:17,029 --> 00:23:13,919
thermodynamics versus kinetic traps

622
00:23:20,549 --> 00:23:17,039
modern biopolymers like dna and rna are

623
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:20,559
high energy kinetic traps and is it

624
00:23:24,870 --> 00:23:22,799
is that a good model for

625
00:23:26,310 --> 00:23:24,880
ancient systems should they be closer to

626
00:23:27,350 --> 00:23:26,320
equilibrium

627
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:27,360
or not

628
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:28,640
so

629
00:23:35,669 --> 00:23:30,799
there's another question here uh bruce

630
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:37,430
are you going to sing for us okay uh

631
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:38,159
there's

632
00:23:43,190 --> 00:23:41,120
called synthesis and assembly of

633
00:23:45,669 --> 00:23:43,200
populations of stable of wigans that

634
00:23:47,430 --> 00:23:45,679
he's got that he presented last week

635
00:23:49,270 --> 00:23:47,440
so um he's looking for input on that

636
00:23:50,950 --> 00:23:49,280
document too yeah i just let me say that

637
00:23:53,430 --> 00:23:50,960
there's a series of documents that are

638
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:53,440
kind of closely related and overlapping

639
00:23:57,190 --> 00:23:55,120
and all of this will ultimately be

640
00:23:58,310 --> 00:23:57,200
funneled into this document called the

641
00:24:00,230 --> 00:23:58,320
roadmap

642
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:00,240
and uh so we're just working on that

643
00:24:05,510 --> 00:24:02,720
process here to get

644
00:24:07,750 --> 00:24:05,520
our some parts of that document together

645
00:24:09,669 --> 00:24:07,760
okay so uh irene did you have some

646
00:24:11,430 --> 00:24:09,679
comments yeah i'll just make one quick

647
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:11,440
comment and then i also want to say

648
00:24:15,029 --> 00:24:12,960
reading the chat window it looks like

649
00:24:16,549 --> 00:24:15,039
people might do want you to go over the

650
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:16,559
document itself so that might be a good

651
00:24:20,950 --> 00:24:18,480
idea i'll leave a lot of time for you so

652
00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:20,960
just my one point is about this whole

653
00:24:24,549 --> 00:24:22,640
prelude about um

654
00:24:26,549 --> 00:24:24,559
what is function and defining function i

655
00:24:28,950 --> 00:24:26,559
think nick started to get into this

656
00:24:31,830 --> 00:24:28,960
um i want to make sure that we have a

657
00:24:34,149 --> 00:24:31,840
pretty inclusive or broad perspective on

658
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:34,159
what function is it could be

659
00:24:38,870 --> 00:24:36,559
the chemical perspective of assembly and

660
00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:38,880
catalysis but also

661
00:24:43,510 --> 00:24:41,520
even really simple physical phenomena

662
00:24:46,870 --> 00:24:43,520
like structural we think of structural

663
00:24:49,190 --> 00:24:46,880
proteins and maybe um

664
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:49,200
if we have structural mono uh polymers

665
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:51,760
also that could be helpful in some way

666
00:24:56,630 --> 00:24:54,480
so it is anything that that enhances the

667
00:24:58,149 --> 00:24:56,640
fitness of an organism

668
00:25:01,350 --> 00:24:58,159
um

669
00:25:04,870 --> 00:25:01,360
an organism i guess broadly defined so

670
00:25:06,950 --> 00:25:04,880
on the physical side um even osmotic

671
00:25:08,710 --> 00:25:06,960
effects that we've looked at previously

672
00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:08,720
could be of interest in terms of

673
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:10,720
function and then on the biological side

674
00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:12,720
there's things like

675
00:25:17,590 --> 00:25:14,880
gene regulation um where you're just

676
00:25:20,070 --> 00:25:17,600
talking about a response to chemicals or

677
00:25:22,230 --> 00:25:20,080
even buffering and things like that um

678
00:25:23,590 --> 00:25:22,240
those simpler functions might actually

679
00:25:26,549 --> 00:25:23,600
be easier to

680
00:25:28,390 --> 00:25:26,559
achieve um and still interesting for for

681
00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:28,400
life um

682
00:25:32,789 --> 00:25:29,600
that's all that's the only point i

683
00:25:38,549 --> 00:25:36,310
yeah okay hi this is this is

684
00:25:41,190 --> 00:25:38,559
so go ahead somebody else comment so

685
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:41,200
this is this is andy ellington uh hi

686
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:43,360
um so i sort of came in a little bit

687
00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:45,120
late but i agree maybe it would be good

688
00:25:47,669 --> 00:25:46,080
to go over

689
00:25:50,710 --> 00:25:47,679
the document because i went and clicked

690
00:25:52,549 --> 00:25:50,720
on the document window and it's a rather

691
00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:52,559
general document that deals with many

692
00:25:56,310 --> 00:25:54,720
important issues and

693
00:25:57,669 --> 00:25:56,320
there is this you know perhaps slight

694
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:57,679
impression that if we

695
00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:00,159
deal with individuals research

696
00:26:05,269 --> 00:26:03,919
um in a you know a seminar that's

697
00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:05,279
essentially about discussing the

698
00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:07,600
document that what we're really doing is

699
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:09,440
trying to write individuals research

700
00:26:15,110 --> 00:26:11,679
into the document which would probably

701
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:18,950
well you could have pulled me dude

702
00:26:23,750 --> 00:26:20,549
we're trying to get some conversation

703
00:26:25,909 --> 00:26:23,760
yeah so what we have okay is one of our

704
00:26:27,590 --> 00:26:25,919
perspectives on it so let's bring it up

705
00:26:30,789 --> 00:26:27,600
what we have actually the next slide

706
00:26:32,870 --> 00:26:30,799
okay now i have taken the document here

707
00:26:36,390 --> 00:26:32,880
and um

708
00:26:37,830 --> 00:26:36,400
i have um so the next the next slides

709
00:26:39,669 --> 00:26:37,840
are actually what i did is i took the

710
00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:39,679
document and i pasted it into this

711
00:26:44,230 --> 00:26:41,600
powerpoint presentation

712
00:26:45,510 --> 00:26:44,240
and what i did is um so that that's what

713
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:45,520
basically these

714
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:47,279
next slides which i'm flipping forward

715
00:26:50,230 --> 00:26:48,960
through and reverse through are this is

716
00:26:52,870 --> 00:26:50,240
where i go through that are the actual

717
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:52,880
document so um we were trying to do is

718
00:26:56,870 --> 00:26:55,200
sort of generate a kind of discussion

719
00:26:58,549 --> 00:26:56,880
and some sort of framework for

720
00:27:00,310 --> 00:26:58,559
discussing the document

721
00:27:01,990 --> 00:27:00,320
so um

722
00:27:04,830 --> 00:27:02,000
and some of this actually and also i

723
00:27:08,549 --> 00:27:04,840
sent the document out to a list of

724
00:27:09,830 --> 00:27:08,559
people who i i just made up a list early

725
00:27:12,070 --> 00:27:09,840
in the week and sent it out to them and

726
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:12,080
i got comments by some people and so

727
00:27:16,230 --> 00:27:13,919
those are some of these initials here

728
00:27:17,830 --> 00:27:16,240
this is uh this is me so that guy got

729
00:27:18,830 --> 00:27:17,840
some things back

730
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:18,840
and

731
00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:21,840
um so if you didn't if i if i didn't

732
00:27:26,070 --> 00:27:23,840
send it to you then i'm sorry please

733
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:26,080
send me email and in the next iterations

734
00:27:30,230 --> 00:27:27,840
i'll get you on that email with andy i

735
00:27:31,510 --> 00:27:30,240
think i did send it to you so um i'm

736
00:27:33,269 --> 00:27:31,520
sure people send me stuff all the time

737
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:33,279
that i don't read so you know that's not

738
00:27:36,149 --> 00:27:34,720
your if not it's not your fault if i

739
00:27:38,470 --> 00:27:36,159
don't read and comment but i still just

740
00:27:40,549 --> 00:27:38,480
think that we should try and keep this

741
00:27:41,750 --> 00:27:40,559
as neutral as possible as we move

742
00:27:44,390 --> 00:27:41,760
forward

743
00:27:47,510 --> 00:27:44,400
yeah i have to say that okay all right

744
00:27:48,950 --> 00:27:47,520
let's do it so um

745
00:27:50,549 --> 00:27:48,960
the uh

746
00:27:53,190 --> 00:27:50,559
okay so maybe i'll these are comments

747
00:27:56,470 --> 00:27:53,200
that we have so this is basically them

748
00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:58,870
we can everybody i just wanted to

749
00:28:01,430 --> 00:28:00,559
to make a quick note this is lindsay

750
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:01,440
hayes

751
00:28:05,269 --> 00:28:03,360
i just wanted to say that for any and

752
00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:05,279
all of these roadmap papers we

753
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:07,919
appreciate contributions from everybody

754
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:10,080
so you know particularly andy if you

755
00:28:14,070 --> 00:28:12,640
feel like this is too centered on one

756
00:28:15,909 --> 00:28:14,080
particular type of research or one

757
00:28:18,389 --> 00:28:15,919
particular groups type of research we

758
00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:18,399
really really are encouraging people to

759
00:28:22,789 --> 00:28:20,320
make comments and get involved in this

760
00:28:24,870 --> 00:28:22,799
whole process to you know make sure that

761
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:24,880
that their particular

762
00:28:29,029 --> 00:28:27,120
interests are included in each of these

763
00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:29,039
white papers and therefore will have a

764
00:28:34,230 --> 00:28:31,760
place in the um the the final document

765
00:28:36,230 --> 00:28:34,240
that comes out of this

766
00:28:38,389 --> 00:28:36,240
and lindsey let me just chip in one

767
00:28:40,710 --> 00:28:38,399
other thought because i think we have

768
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:40,720
several people here who haven't been to

769
00:28:45,990 --> 00:28:42,720
previous webinars so i just wanted to

770
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:46,000
explain some terribly mechanical things

771
00:28:52,310 --> 00:28:49,200
on the front of the website you'll find

772
00:28:54,470 --> 00:28:52,320
a link to each of the white papers or

773
00:28:55,110 --> 00:28:54,480
concept papers that have been presented

774
00:29:00,070 --> 00:28:55,120
and

775
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:00,080
presenting now is at the top of the list

776
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:03,360
prior to the webinar it's in read-only

777
00:29:07,190 --> 00:29:05,039
mode and the only reason i'm saying this

778
00:29:10,389 --> 00:29:07,200
is you don't actually have to email it

779
00:29:12,630 --> 00:29:10,399
to anyone everyone has access to it as

780
00:29:15,990 --> 00:29:12,640
soon as the webinar finishes we flip the

781
00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:16,000
switch and it goes into comment mode um

782
00:29:20,630 --> 00:29:18,559
and uh all you need is a google docs

783
00:29:22,630 --> 00:29:20,640
account so everyone can read it right

784
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:22,640
now and should be able to comment on it

785
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:24,480
in half an hour's time

786
00:29:29,029 --> 00:29:27,120
okay yeah so so andy if i could if i

787
00:29:29,830 --> 00:29:29,039
could just ask real real quick so you

788
00:29:31,510 --> 00:29:29,840
know

789
00:29:33,669 --> 00:29:31,520
let's assume that just besides being

790
00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:33,679
lazy there are some of us who have not

791
00:29:37,830 --> 00:29:36,240
had a chance to really you know chime in

792
00:29:40,230 --> 00:29:37,840
until end of term

793
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:40,240
when is the comment portion closed for

794
00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:42,000
all the documents and at what point do

795
00:29:49,190 --> 00:29:47,669
actually um can i can i field that

796
00:29:51,269 --> 00:29:49,200
question andy

797
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:51,279
yeah sure that question from andy to

798
00:29:56,230 --> 00:29:52,960
andy um

799
00:29:57,990 --> 00:29:56,240
so the the current schedule that we have

800
00:29:59,830 --> 00:29:58,000
um you can actually if you go back and

801
00:30:02,310 --> 00:29:59,840
look um on the same page that the

802
00:30:05,430 --> 00:30:02,320
astrobiology futures page uh michael

803
00:30:08,230 --> 00:30:05,440
news presentation the the way forward uh

804
00:30:09,909 --> 00:30:08,240
sort of gives you a sense of the timing

805
00:30:13,430 --> 00:30:09,919
the goal is we're going to finish up

806
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:13,440
with our with our final presentations

807
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:15,120
sometime in mid

808
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:17,440
january

809
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:19,760
we're going to leave them open for a bit

810
00:30:25,750 --> 00:30:22,159
longer for comments and such but then

811
00:30:27,830 --> 00:30:25,760
the goal is uh in about

812
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:27,840
starting in february and through sort of

813
00:30:32,070 --> 00:30:30,720
mid-march to start doing edits of these

814
00:30:33,990 --> 00:30:32,080
and to really start bringing them

815
00:30:35,510 --> 00:30:34,000
together either in some in-person or

816
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:35,520
some virtual way

817
00:30:39,990 --> 00:30:37,919
we haven't quite um outlined that yet

818
00:30:41,430 --> 00:30:40,000
but the idea is basically

819
00:30:43,750 --> 00:30:41,440
it's at some point we're going to bring

820
00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:43,760
it together um and that's probably going

821
00:30:47,909 --> 00:30:45,039
to be like you said like you're asking

822
00:30:48,710 --> 00:30:47,919
for a date sometime um early february

823
00:30:50,470 --> 00:30:48,720
through

824
00:30:52,149 --> 00:30:50,480
early march

825
00:30:54,470 --> 00:30:52,159
okay so if we want to get our chits in

826
00:30:57,269 --> 00:30:54,480
we need to get them in by mid january

827
00:30:58,389 --> 00:30:57,279
early february something like that yep

828
00:31:01,110 --> 00:30:58,399
okay

829
00:31:05,110 --> 00:31:02,789
back to our presenters

830
00:31:07,590 --> 00:31:05,120
okay so um

831
00:31:08,870 --> 00:31:07,600
what i uh the the note here and this was

832
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:08,880
actually not part of the document this

833
00:31:13,510 --> 00:31:10,880
was a note i wrote in the into the

834
00:31:15,990 --> 00:31:13,520
document that i sent out to everybody on

835
00:31:18,549 --> 00:31:16,000
monday i think but what i would like

836
00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:18,559
what i propose to do is is ask if we

837
00:31:22,870 --> 00:31:20,880
could if we could

838
00:31:25,269 --> 00:31:22,880
try to and maybe people don't agree with

839
00:31:28,149 --> 00:31:25,279
this but this was just an idea i had was

840
00:31:30,870 --> 00:31:28,159
to try to uh establish a sort of a

841
00:31:32,549 --> 00:31:30,880
temporal order to um

842
00:31:34,389 --> 00:31:32,559
increasing complexity

843
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:34,399
of function and i can see now actually

844
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:36,000
from listening to irene and other people

845
00:31:38,389 --> 00:31:37,279
that actually the list of function i

846
00:31:41,750 --> 00:31:38,399
have here

847
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:41,760
is not complete but um so that basically

848
00:31:45,669 --> 00:31:43,120
we could write

849
00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:45,679
sort of our broad definition of function

850
00:31:49,350 --> 00:31:47,760
and then we could maybe

851
00:31:51,190 --> 00:31:49,360
um

852
00:31:53,509 --> 00:31:51,200
try to see if we could put things in a

853
00:31:54,710 --> 00:31:53,519
temporal order that was just an idea i

854
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:54,720
had that

855
00:31:57,430 --> 00:31:56,240
if people

856
00:32:00,149 --> 00:31:57,440
um

857
00:32:02,870 --> 00:32:00,159
want to weigh in on it they can't i

858
00:32:05,430 --> 00:32:02,880
think that's an excellent idea

859
00:32:07,190 --> 00:32:05,440
i think that's a terrible idea

860
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:07,200
okay well okay so what should we do

861
00:32:10,710 --> 00:32:09,440
instead

862
00:32:13,430 --> 00:32:10,720
i don't know but i mean do we need

863
00:32:14,950 --> 00:32:13,440
temporal ordering can't we just say hey

864
00:32:16,549 --> 00:32:14,960
we're going to

865
00:32:17,909 --> 00:32:16,559
require the evolution of functionality

866
00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:17,919
the evolution of functionality may have

867
00:32:21,669 --> 00:32:19,200
occurred by a variety of different

868
00:32:23,509 --> 00:32:21,679
pathways it doesn't have to occur by

869
00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:23,519
this pathway the proofs in the pudding

870
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:24,880
how do you get to

871
00:32:28,470 --> 00:32:26,640
the functional biopolymer or the

872
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:28,480
functional early replicator or whatever

873
00:32:32,789 --> 00:32:30,960
you want and so there may be elements of

874
00:32:34,389 --> 00:32:32,799
it and these are some of those elements

875
00:32:35,509 --> 00:32:34,399
but other you know depending upon the

876
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:35,519
system depending on the polymer

877
00:32:39,110 --> 00:32:36,720
depending upon

878
00:32:40,710 --> 00:32:39,120
you know what what mechanism or scenario

879
00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:40,720
you pick it might have occurred in

880
00:32:44,950 --> 00:32:43,200
different orders

881
00:32:48,070 --> 00:32:44,960
maybe the right way

882
00:32:50,230 --> 00:32:48,080
not a temporal order but a

883
00:32:51,509 --> 00:32:50,240
probability relative probabilities for

884
00:32:55,029 --> 00:32:51,519
each

885
00:32:57,509 --> 00:32:56,470
which again i think would be system

886
00:32:58,710 --> 00:32:57,519
specific

887
00:33:00,549 --> 00:32:58,720
yeah

888
00:33:01,909 --> 00:33:00,559
okay but then there's there's levels of

889
00:33:03,509 --> 00:33:01,919
it and that's what laura and i were

890
00:33:05,350 --> 00:33:03,519
trying to you know when we first started

891
00:33:07,110 --> 00:33:05,360
talking about we were talking on very

892
00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:07,120
different levels lauren was talking

893
00:33:09,029 --> 00:33:08,080
about

894
00:33:11,909 --> 00:33:09,039
function

895
00:33:14,710 --> 00:33:11,919
that was more of you know associations

896
00:33:16,310 --> 00:33:14,720
even monomer associations and and i was

897
00:33:18,070 --> 00:33:16,320
thinking that when people think about

898
00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:18,080
emerging the function they're thinking

899
00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:19,120
about

900
00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:20,960
you know polymers with sequences that

901
00:33:25,269 --> 00:33:23,360
have activity right but those are you

902
00:33:27,029 --> 00:33:25,279
know one of those is

903
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:27,039
say on the nature of the molecule

904
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:29,840
themselves and the other is kind of

905
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:32,880
information part of a molecule

906
00:33:36,830 --> 00:33:34,720
you know in different species

907
00:33:40,230 --> 00:33:36,840
those both

908
00:33:41,750 --> 00:33:40,240
same particular mechanisms i mean we

909
00:33:42,870 --> 00:33:41,760
both know you know from the literature

910
00:33:43,990 --> 00:33:42,880
and from experiment there are a wide

911
00:33:45,669 --> 00:33:44,000
variety

912
00:33:47,830 --> 00:33:45,679
of mechanisms like we which people

913
00:33:49,269 --> 00:33:47,840
assume functionality arises you know

914
00:33:50,789 --> 00:33:49,279
some of which pass through biopolymer

915
00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:50,799
some of which don't and some of which

916
00:33:55,350 --> 00:33:52,320
can pass through other mechanisms and

917
00:33:57,029 --> 00:33:55,360
then become biopolymers and so since in

918
00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:57,039
the end world were i think all

919
00:34:01,590 --> 00:33:59,200
interested in what either was likely to

920
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:01,600
happen or could happen elsewhere i would

921
00:34:04,870 --> 00:34:04,159
say unconstraining this problem in terms

922
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:04,880
of

923
00:34:10,389 --> 00:34:09,119
is is is

924
00:34:12,470 --> 00:34:10,399
necessary it's going to be system

925
00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:12,480
specific and it's probably up to

926
00:34:17,030 --> 00:34:15,280
investigators to to specify their system

927
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:17,040
or specify their mechanism and then

928
00:34:23,270 --> 00:34:19,440
apply these different

929
00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:23,280
sort of functionalities as they wish

930
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:24,960
i i don't see why we're getting so hung

931
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:26,560
up on temporal order i mean it's

932
00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:28,960
increasing complexity that matters

933
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:30,800
and i you could just drop the temporal

934
00:34:33,349 --> 00:34:31,919
order and it's not going to change

935
00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:33,359
anything

936
00:34:36,950 --> 00:34:34,639
exactly

937
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:36,960
okay i i would argue that that com you

938
00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:39,679
know even complexity is a loaded word

939
00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:41,200
and that

940
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:44,869
right so temporal is really loaded

941
00:34:48,790 --> 00:34:47,760
complexity is still loaded and one can

942
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:48,800
imagine

943
00:34:52,470 --> 00:34:50,800
you know specific binding prior to

944
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:52,480
self-assembly or specific binding being

945
00:34:55,510 --> 00:34:54,079
more probable than self-assembly and so

946
00:34:56,230 --> 00:34:55,520
on and so on again i think it's up to

947
00:35:01,349 --> 00:34:56,240
the

948
00:35:03,910 --> 00:35:01,359
individual investigators with individual

949
00:35:06,310 --> 00:35:03,920
systems to show how these play out i i

950
00:35:08,630 --> 00:35:06,320
i'm uncomfortable with making general

951
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:08,640
sweeping statements that have no you

952
00:35:13,270 --> 00:35:09,920
know grounding

953
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:13,280
in chemistry or molecules or

954
00:35:16,630 --> 00:35:14,880
or whatnot that that i could that i

955
00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:16,640
could at least see my way fit to to

956
00:35:20,150 --> 00:35:18,480
saying oh yeah that it happened that way

957
00:35:21,829 --> 00:35:20,160
and not that way

958
00:35:23,430 --> 00:35:21,839
i think it's just a framework right i

959
00:35:25,270 --> 00:35:23,440
don't think it's you have to say

960
00:35:27,910 --> 00:35:25,280
something so andy give us a statement

961
00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:27,920
that you would agree with

962
00:35:30,630 --> 00:35:29,200
these are all interesting

963
00:35:31,430 --> 00:35:30,640
functionalities

964
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:31,440
um

965
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:34,000
you know it would be you know can can

966
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:36,000
can you individually or collectively

967
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:37,920
show how to instantiate these

968
00:35:42,150 --> 00:35:40,800
functionalities with biopolymer systems

969
00:35:44,069 --> 00:35:42,160
of any sort i mean that would be a

970
00:35:45,109 --> 00:35:44,079
challenge to the community that doesn't

971
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:45,119
require

972
00:35:48,710 --> 00:35:46,800
any grounding in temporal order or

973
00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:48,720
probability or complexity it's just yeah

974
00:35:52,069 --> 00:35:50,560
we recognize these they're important how

975
00:35:53,829 --> 00:35:52,079
do you get there

976
00:35:55,910 --> 00:35:53,839
there could be multiple pathways and

977
00:35:58,069 --> 00:35:55,920
those pathways could be traversed

978
00:35:59,589 --> 00:35:58,079
differently by different molecular sets

979
00:36:00,950 --> 00:35:59,599
there could be different probabilities

980
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:00,960
depending upon the different molecular

981
00:36:11,829 --> 00:36:09,589
okay do you have more in the document do

982
00:36:13,589 --> 00:36:11,839
you want to go yeah um one of the things

983
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:13,599
i have actually that i think got pushed

984
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:16,079
off the page because uh

985
00:36:19,510 --> 00:36:18,000
actually early thought it was so obvious

986
00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:19,520
that i didn't i shouldn't even say it

987
00:36:24,790 --> 00:36:21,920
what was that all of this should be

988
00:36:27,349 --> 00:36:24,800
linked to experimentally addressable

989
00:36:29,670 --> 00:36:27,359
systems so that whatever we're doing

990
00:36:31,190 --> 00:36:29,680
here needs to be linked to experiments

991
00:36:32,150 --> 00:36:31,200
so um

992
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:32,160
that was

993
00:36:35,750 --> 00:36:34,079
another question okay so now this is

994
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:35,760
right out of the document this is you

995
00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:37,599
know we had the meeting at

996
00:36:40,870 --> 00:36:38,640
island

997
00:36:42,390 --> 00:36:40,880
and we uh

998
00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:42,400
as a group and i mean there were people

999
00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:44,240
online working on this we

1000
00:36:49,270 --> 00:36:46,560
we came up with some

1001
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:49,280
that we thought were or some of these

1002
00:36:53,190 --> 00:36:51,280
look like statements

1003
00:37:01,349 --> 00:36:53,200
um

1004
00:37:03,109 --> 00:37:01,359
i just copied and pasted this directly

1005
00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:03,119
uh into the

1006
00:37:05,829 --> 00:37:04,320
thing and i guess i guess maybe why

1007
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:05,839
don't i just let people read this for a

1008
00:37:25,190 --> 00:37:07,520
second before we

1009
00:37:27,990 --> 00:37:26,630
lauren while people are reading that

1010
00:37:30,069 --> 00:37:28,000
maybe i could just make the comments

1011
00:37:31,589 --> 00:37:30,079
that the point on your on on the

1012
00:37:33,430 --> 00:37:31,599
previous slide maybe it could be phrased

1013
00:37:35,109 --> 00:37:33,440
as a hypothesis and it could be like

1014
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:35,119
addressing the question

1015
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:36,400
whether there are general

1016
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:37,280
uh

1017
00:37:40,470 --> 00:37:38,640
there's there are general features to

1018
00:37:43,190 --> 00:37:40,480
the temporal order or probabilities or

1019
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:43,200
whatever um general to

1020
00:37:46,470 --> 00:37:44,880
multiple chemical systems maybe it could

1021
00:37:47,829 --> 00:37:46,480
be phrased as a question to be

1022
00:37:54,470 --> 00:37:47,839
investigated

1023
00:37:57,190 --> 00:37:55,990
um are there

1024
00:37:59,270 --> 00:37:57,200
if people have gone through this are

1025
00:38:01,589 --> 00:37:59,280
there particular points in this list

1026
00:38:04,470 --> 00:38:01,599
that people would like to discuss is

1027
00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:04,480
there

1028
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:09,349
that think people think should be

1029
00:38:19,030 --> 00:38:16,790
these all seem like excellent questions

1030
00:38:21,030 --> 00:38:19,040
to me um because they're they're pretty

1031
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:21,040
open-ended or even when they're asking

1032
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:23,200
for you know this or that it's a pretty

1033
00:38:27,109 --> 00:38:25,119
general this or that so these seem like

1034
00:38:31,430 --> 00:38:27,119
to me like really good um

1035
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,910
okay

1036
00:38:41,829 --> 00:38:35,829
um

1037
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:43,190
so i think when we look at these

1038
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:44,400
questions that we need to think about

1039
00:38:48,069 --> 00:38:46,400
them in terms of what the real road map

1040
00:38:49,910 --> 00:38:48,079
is going to be because

1041
00:38:51,670 --> 00:38:49,920
you know we can't we cannot i don't

1042
00:38:53,190 --> 00:38:51,680
think include a lot of this detail in

1043
00:38:55,109 --> 00:38:53,200
the roadmap i think the document we're

1044
00:38:56,550 --> 00:38:55,119
looking at is also

1045
00:38:58,950 --> 00:38:56,560
it's probably going to be distilled down

1046
00:38:59,750 --> 00:38:58,960
to maybe a couple sentences probably so

1047
00:39:03,750 --> 00:38:59,760
we

1048
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:03,760
for us to think about this but um

1049
00:39:08,230 --> 00:39:05,920
somehow this has to be

1050
00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:08,240
um tuned a little bit in conjunction

1051
00:39:16,230 --> 00:39:14,390
so i just wanted to also add here um

1052
00:39:18,069 --> 00:39:16,240
this is lindsay again um one of the

1053
00:39:20,630 --> 00:39:18,079
things that we were really sort of

1054
00:39:22,790 --> 00:39:20,640
trying to encourage with some of the

1055
00:39:25,190 --> 00:39:22,800
one of the earlier papers uh included a

1056
00:39:27,190 --> 00:39:25,200
section that we called things to work on

1057
00:39:30,069 --> 00:39:27,200
in the coming 10 years

1058
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:30,079
and that kind of using you know turning

1059
00:39:33,910 --> 00:39:32,800
these great sub questions into you know

1060
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:33,920
where

1061
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:35,359
you know what specifically do we think

1062
00:39:38,150 --> 00:39:36,800
we want to work on what specifically do

1063
00:39:40,069 --> 00:39:38,160
we think we can get to that kind of

1064
00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:40,079
thing in the next 10 years might be

1065
00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:42,160
something that you want a lens that you

1066
00:39:45,829 --> 00:39:44,400
want to sort of bring that view these

1067
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:45,839
questions through

1068
00:39:51,030 --> 00:39:47,359
and think about how you want to arrange

1069
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:52,710
so so lindsey

1070
00:39:56,230 --> 00:39:54,480
that was sort of what i was a little

1071
00:39:58,470 --> 00:39:56,240
worried about earlier i know we're

1072
00:40:00,230 --> 00:39:58,480
getting input from the community but

1073
00:40:01,990 --> 00:40:00,240
what i'm what i keep thinking is you

1074
00:40:04,390 --> 00:40:02,000
know people who haven't participated in

1075
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:04,400
these calls or worked on these documents

1076
00:40:08,630 --> 00:40:06,640
are still out there they'll they'll

1077
00:40:10,790 --> 00:40:08,640
eventually be invited hopefully to

1078
00:40:11,670 --> 00:40:10,800
participate in the in the roadmap

1079
00:40:13,670 --> 00:40:11,680
and

1080
00:40:16,230 --> 00:40:13,680
i'm i keep worrying about the ideas we

1081
00:40:17,990 --> 00:40:16,240
haven't seen or won't see as a result of

1082
00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:18,000
these discussions and so if we target

1083
00:40:24,950 --> 00:40:19,280
specific

1084
00:40:26,470 --> 00:40:24,960
projects even rather than these very

1085
00:40:28,310 --> 00:40:26,480
interesting open questions or even the

1086
00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:28,320
previous slide or very interesting

1087
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:30,640
functionalities that we're going to

1088
00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:32,160
unintentionally include or

1089
00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:34,400
unintentionally exclude people from the

1090
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:36,240
greater whole

1091
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:37,760
and we agree um this is actually

1092
00:40:41,190 --> 00:40:39,599
something that michael and mary and i

1093
00:40:43,030 --> 00:40:41,200
and sean and andy have been talking a

1094
00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:43,040
lot about is trying to make sure that

1095
00:40:47,589 --> 00:40:45,680
that not just questions or sub-questions

1096
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:47,599
or topics that could be you know that

1097
00:40:51,349 --> 00:40:49,040
could be into any of the individual

1098
00:40:54,069 --> 00:40:51,359
papers that might be excluded but even

1099
00:40:57,190 --> 00:40:54,079
broader topics that aren't that that you

1100
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:57,200
know people feel might be missed um if

1101
00:41:01,430 --> 00:40:58,640
you feel i mean that's part of the

1102
00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:01,440
reason during the kickoff we showed the

1103
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:04,079
um the spider diagram that we did of the

1104
00:41:08,470 --> 00:41:06,960
topic papers that we had and we said you

1105
00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:08,480
know these are the topic papers that we

1106
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:11,760
have so far if anybody feels like you

1107
00:41:16,309 --> 00:41:13,440
know they can't see their research in

1108
00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:16,319
here or that they want you know that

1109
00:41:19,750 --> 00:41:17,520
they want

1110
00:41:21,990 --> 00:41:19,760
they think that something was missed

1111
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:22,000
we have encouraged and are continuing to

1112
00:41:26,470 --> 00:41:24,480
encourage anybody to say hey i'm going

1113
00:41:27,270 --> 00:41:26,480
to write a white paper on this

1114
00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:27,280
um

1115
00:41:29,990 --> 00:41:28,480
you know do you think that'll fit in

1116
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:30,000
that kind of thing

1117
00:41:33,670 --> 00:41:31,599
bring some friends you know some other

1118
00:41:35,829 --> 00:41:33,680
people you work with to help you

1119
00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:35,839
get a topic paper written

1120
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:37,200
since we are going to be using these

1121
00:41:40,230 --> 00:41:38,880
topic papers to assemble the thing this

1122
00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:40,240
is why we've tried to you know we've

1123
00:41:44,710 --> 00:41:42,160
been trying to get as much input from

1124
00:41:46,390 --> 00:41:44,720
the community as possible if if you see

1125
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:46,400
something that's missing please let us

1126
00:41:49,589 --> 00:41:48,000
know you know try and work on a white

1127
00:41:50,870 --> 00:41:49,599
paper or bring some people together or

1128
00:41:53,430 --> 00:41:50,880
whatever

1129
00:41:55,109 --> 00:41:53,440
is that uh that on the same time frame

1130
00:41:56,790 --> 00:41:55,119
so you would have to have that

1131
00:41:58,870 --> 00:41:56,800
by mid-january or do you need that

1132
00:42:00,950 --> 00:41:58,880
sooner um no that's on that that's on

1133
00:42:02,470 --> 00:42:00,960
the same time frame um we would hope

1134
00:42:03,670 --> 00:42:02,480
that if you could get it you know if you

1135
00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:03,680
could get i mean these aren't these are

1136
00:42:08,069 --> 00:42:05,440
white papers right so they're relatively

1137
00:42:09,589 --> 00:42:08,079
short um and you know we don't need any

1138
00:42:13,109 --> 00:42:09,599
additional research really going into

1139
00:42:14,550 --> 00:42:13,119
them um but the the hope is that if you

1140
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:14,560
guys could get a white paper together if

1141
00:42:18,950 --> 00:42:16,560
you guys feel like there's some topic um

1142
00:42:21,270 --> 00:42:18,960
we do still have some time at the end of

1143
00:42:24,230 --> 00:42:21,280
january uh that is still available for

1144
00:42:25,589 --> 00:42:24,240
white papers to be presented um so you

1145
00:42:27,430 --> 00:42:25,599
know we're not

1146
00:42:28,870 --> 00:42:27,440
we we want to we would we would rather

1147
00:42:30,309 --> 00:42:28,880
keep this going a little bit longer and

1148
00:42:32,390 --> 00:42:30,319
make sure we get the right amount of

1149
00:42:33,349 --> 00:42:32,400
feedback then cut it off and miss

1150
00:42:35,589 --> 00:42:33,359
something

1151
00:42:36,390 --> 00:42:35,599
right okay well that's great

1152
00:42:39,349 --> 00:42:36,400
yeah

1153
00:42:42,950 --> 00:42:39,359
and andy i see just put up the um

1154
00:42:44,470 --> 00:42:42,960
uh the link to the spider diagram um

1155
00:42:46,390 --> 00:42:44,480
it's again if you go to that website

1156
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:46,400
astrobiology future you can see

1157
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:48,160
everything that's been done and please

1158
00:42:51,109 --> 00:42:49,440
please if you if you think that

1159
00:42:53,270 --> 00:42:51,119
something's missing we would really

1160
00:42:57,510 --> 00:42:53,280
really like to get that that in right so

1161
00:43:01,030 --> 00:42:58,790
sorry i think that's a great i think

1162
00:43:02,710 --> 00:43:01,040
that's a fine response lindsey but it

1163
00:43:03,910 --> 00:43:02,720
sort of a little bit misses my point

1164
00:43:06,069 --> 00:43:03,920
which is

1165
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:06,079
for the people who don't participate

1166
00:43:10,230 --> 00:43:07,920
yeah sure i can go and try and cover the

1167
00:43:11,990 --> 00:43:10,240
universe of ideas not represented i'm

1168
00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:12,000
not going to do a very good job of that

1169
00:43:17,270 --> 00:43:13,760
i keep thinking about you know a younger

1170
00:43:19,190 --> 00:43:17,280
nick hood who you know has these amazing

1171
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:19,200
you know really novel ideas that

1172
00:43:23,829 --> 00:43:21,040
probably nobody but nick hud is thinking

1173
00:43:26,630 --> 00:43:23,839
about and if we weren't lucky enough to

1174
00:43:28,870 --> 00:43:26,640
you know capture the young girl nick hud

1175
00:43:29,990 --> 00:43:28,880
early on and they just happened across

1176
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:30,000
this call

1177
00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:31,520
how would we know even you know that

1178
00:43:35,750 --> 00:43:33,040
there's something there for them i think

1179
00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:35,760
in some ways the more general we are

1180
00:43:39,349 --> 00:43:37,680
in stating the idea of stating the

1181
00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:39,359
problem stating the questions the more

1182
00:43:44,069 --> 00:43:41,440
likely that we'll we'll cast a broad net

1183
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:44,079
to find novel solutions not just commun

1184
00:43:47,990 --> 00:43:46,000
solutions by the community that already

1185
00:43:50,230 --> 00:43:48,000
exists and is already participating but

1186
00:43:51,829 --> 00:43:50,240
by lots of other people so so that's why

1187
00:43:53,829 --> 00:43:51,839
i get wary when it's like well let's

1188
00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:53,839
talk about this aspect of research or

1189
00:43:57,109 --> 00:43:55,040
that aspect of research or this

1190
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:57,119
particular order or whatnot i really

1191
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:59,520
don't want to lose a broader community

1192
00:44:02,309 --> 00:44:01,040
where there are fresh ideas that we may

1193
00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:02,319
not have thought of

1194
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:03,760
so so basically what you're trying to

1195
00:44:08,950 --> 00:44:05,760
say is you're speaking you want to be

1196
00:44:09,910 --> 00:44:08,960
the voice of keeping the final road map

1197
00:44:12,150 --> 00:44:09,920
which we're actually calling the

1198
00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:12,160
strategy uh keeping that as broad as

1199
00:44:14,069 --> 00:44:13,280
possible

1200
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:14,079
yeah

1201
00:44:19,030 --> 00:44:16,800
okay we will definitely um that's a good

1202
00:44:21,270 --> 00:44:19,040
point um and when we and when we get to

1203
00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:21,280
the stage of putting this all together

1204
00:44:25,990 --> 00:44:23,839
we will definitely try and do that um

1205
00:44:27,829 --> 00:44:26,000
but you know in the meantime the part of

1206
00:44:29,270 --> 00:44:27,839
the reason that we wanted to

1207
00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:29,280
you know get as many of the community

1208
00:44:32,790 --> 00:44:31,040
involved is to hope that you know

1209
00:44:35,349 --> 00:44:32,800
somebody may know that other you know

1210
00:44:37,589 --> 00:44:35,359
the the young nick hud as you put it um

1211
00:44:39,430 --> 00:44:37,599
and get you know and and

1212
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:39,440
speak up for them or you know add a

1213
00:44:43,349 --> 00:44:41,520
little hey maybe we should think about

1214
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:43,359
this or that kind of thing but i see

1215
00:44:45,510 --> 00:44:44,400
what you're saying i say i think you've

1216
00:44:46,790 --> 00:44:45,520
got a good point tonight and i

1217
00:44:52,390 --> 00:44:46,800
understand what you're getting at i

1218
00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:54,790
so if that's is that does that sound

1219
00:45:00,710 --> 00:44:59,190
yeah sure that's great

1220
00:45:02,870 --> 00:45:00,720
yeah i'm i'm just trying not to

1221
00:45:04,470 --> 00:45:02,880
interrupt sorry sorry yeah so that was i

1222
00:45:06,710 --> 00:45:04,480
mean that was i guess i guess if that's

1223
00:45:08,790 --> 00:45:06,720
your point i i agree that keeping the

1224
00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:08,800
final paper general is is a good point

1225
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:11,920
um and we will try and do that

1226
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:14,400
lauren we can hear you so i'll also go

1227
00:45:18,470 --> 00:45:16,240
right ahead sorry

1228
00:45:19,510 --> 00:45:18,480
um i just uh want to say one thing i

1229
00:45:21,349 --> 00:45:19,520
mean i guess

1230
00:45:22,630 --> 00:45:21,359
uh maybe this was misunderstood but in

1231
00:45:25,030 --> 00:45:22,640
the beginning of this

1232
00:45:27,750 --> 00:45:25,040
talk i just i thought i should just try

1233
00:45:29,589 --> 00:45:27,760
to present some things to stimulate the

1234
00:45:31,670 --> 00:45:29,599
discussion honestly that is not my

1235
00:45:34,390 --> 00:45:31,680
research that's not the research i do

1236
00:45:37,349 --> 00:45:34,400
it's just that the title of the talk was

1237
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:37,359
um i mean the title of our paper was on

1238
00:45:40,630 --> 00:45:38,880
assembly and i thought you know if we

1239
00:45:43,270 --> 00:45:40,640
had sort of a detailed talk about what

1240
00:45:44,710 --> 00:45:43,280
assembly was or i i mean it was on

1241
00:45:46,470 --> 00:45:44,720
function i just wanted to sort of direct

1242
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:46,480
the talk to the definition of function

1243
00:45:50,150 --> 00:45:48,720
but honestly i didn't mean to

1244
00:45:51,430 --> 00:45:50,160
uh to

1245
00:45:54,390 --> 00:45:51,440
to give the impression that we were

1246
00:45:56,790 --> 00:45:54,400
focusing it on some detailed um kind of

1247
00:45:58,950 --> 00:45:56,800
research so if that was the impression

1248
00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:58,960
that was given then i'm sorry for that

1249
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:01,440
um also there david ross had a statement

1250
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:03,599
there about thermodynamics

1251
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:06,640
and i mean what we should do david is uh

1252
00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:08,800
just you know during the editing process

1253
00:46:12,230 --> 00:46:10,640
i mean just make sure your comments you

1254
00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:12,240
know i think your ideas are really good

1255
00:46:14,790 --> 00:46:13,760
and we should just make sure they get

1256
00:46:16,630 --> 00:46:14,800
worked in

1257
00:46:18,309 --> 00:46:16,640
um just at this point i don't think we

1258
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:18,319
can really edit that and add it in here

1259
00:46:22,390 --> 00:46:20,960
but that should definitely be here

1260
00:46:23,270 --> 00:46:22,400
so um

1261
00:46:25,270 --> 00:46:23,280
so

1262
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:25,280
you just have to kind of keep

1263
00:46:29,109 --> 00:46:26,960
keep after it and make sure that your

1264
00:46:31,510 --> 00:46:29,119
comments get in here

1265
00:46:34,550 --> 00:46:31,520
okay are there are there other comments

1266
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,390
okay i'm gonna go to the next page

1267
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,870
okay

1268
00:46:46,710 --> 00:46:42,950
yes yeah sorry

1269
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:46,720
so uh this is lucas i was uh curious

1270
00:46:49,990 --> 00:46:47,760
um

1271
00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:50,000
about this question of what constitutes

1272
00:46:53,589 --> 00:46:51,200
a function

1273
00:46:55,990 --> 00:46:53,599
and i think well i don't think there's a

1274
00:46:57,589 --> 00:46:56,000
strict rigorous answer for that but it

1275
00:46:59,430 --> 00:46:57,599
might be useful in a document somewhere

1276
00:47:00,470 --> 00:46:59,440
to have a short list of particular

1277
00:47:02,710 --> 00:47:00,480
functions

1278
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:02,720
uh like the the one you had in your

1279
00:47:06,870 --> 00:47:04,480
comment i agree

1280
00:47:10,470 --> 00:47:06,880
i'm suspicious of putting it in any

1281
00:47:11,589 --> 00:47:10,480
particular order um but i do think that

1282
00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:11,599
there's

1283
00:47:15,589 --> 00:47:12,960
for me i'm

1284
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:15,599
still unclear exactly what constitutes

1285
00:47:18,309 --> 00:47:16,319
uh

1286
00:47:19,510 --> 00:47:18,319
what i suppose is a biological function

1287
00:47:22,950 --> 00:47:19,520
as opposed to

1288
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:26,710
right i agree and i think um

1289
00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:28,160
you know i think it's something that

1290
00:47:31,190 --> 00:47:30,240
this group could hash out i mean i

1291
00:47:32,550 --> 00:47:31,200
actually

1292
00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:32,560
even though i was thinking in such a

1293
00:47:37,430 --> 00:47:34,960
reductionist term i actually like

1294
00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:37,440
uh irene's definition better than mine

1295
00:47:40,309 --> 00:47:38,800
basically a function is something that

1296
00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:40,319
confers advantage is that what you said

1297
00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:45,510
something that increases the fitness of

1298
00:47:48,950 --> 00:47:47,760
the organ increases fitness yeah so and

1299
00:47:50,870 --> 00:47:48,960
that could be

1300
00:47:53,030 --> 00:47:50,880
you could sort of use that definition on

1301
00:47:55,270 --> 00:47:53,040
many many levels so i think

1302
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:55,280
i think that's a good deal but that's

1303
00:47:59,109 --> 00:47:56,800
that's what this group needs to kind of

1304
00:48:01,030 --> 00:47:59,119
hash out because i mean we can't

1305
00:48:02,630 --> 00:48:01,040
in this document in the final document

1306
00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:02,640
we're not going to have a page to talk

1307
00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:04,079
about what is function and what's not

1308
00:48:07,990 --> 00:48:05,599
function we have to be

1309
00:48:09,910 --> 00:48:08,000
really concise and very general and so

1310
00:48:12,550 --> 00:48:09,920
that people who come along with things

1311
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:12,560
we haven't anticipated don't get

1312
00:48:16,390 --> 00:48:14,319
don't get ruled out because of it like

1313
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:16,400
andy said that that's a really important

1314
00:48:22,069 --> 00:48:18,720
uh consideration it has to be

1315
00:48:23,750 --> 00:48:22,079
a general you know it has to last for

1316
00:48:26,549 --> 00:48:23,760
uh through a period of time where things

1317
00:48:29,109 --> 00:48:26,559
are happening that we're not foreseen

1318
00:48:31,670 --> 00:48:29,119
yeah so lauren if i might say i i wasn't

1319
00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:31,680
you know accusing you of presenting a a

1320
00:48:35,510 --> 00:48:33,520
specific view that was

1321
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:35,520
self-serving but when i've done this

1322
00:48:39,510 --> 00:48:37,760
before in other contexts

1323
00:48:42,950 --> 00:48:39,520
you know it's a little weird in this

1324
00:48:44,069 --> 00:48:42,960
context because you know it the goal

1325
00:48:45,750 --> 00:48:44,079
of

1326
00:48:48,069 --> 00:48:45,760
the the road map

1327
00:48:50,630 --> 00:48:48,079
is more tenuous than let's say when we

1328
00:48:52,150 --> 00:48:50,640
we do it for darpa and you know the goal

1329
00:48:53,910 --> 00:48:52,160
is you know make a better bomb or

1330
00:48:55,349 --> 00:48:53,920
whatever i mean so

1331
00:48:57,030 --> 00:48:55,359
although the goals are more tenuous i

1332
00:48:58,870 --> 00:48:57,040
like the idea that

1333
00:49:00,710 --> 00:48:58,880
if we have something we're attempting to

1334
00:49:02,710 --> 00:49:00,720
achieve and in this case let's just call

1335
00:49:04,870 --> 00:49:02,720
it a living system and there may be a

1336
00:49:06,309 --> 00:49:04,880
huge variety of pathways by which one

1337
00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:06,319
could reach that living system and also

1338
00:49:09,589 --> 00:49:07,760
a huge number of questions one of which

1339
00:49:11,430 --> 00:49:09,599
we just heard brought up about chemical

1340
00:49:12,710 --> 00:49:11,440
versus biological functionality and what

1341
00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:12,720
that even means

1342
00:49:16,549 --> 00:49:14,720
that we leave it to the individual

1343
00:49:18,549 --> 00:49:16,559
investigators to

1344
00:49:21,109 --> 00:49:18,559
almost define their own terms define

1345
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:21,119
their own paths to find a lot of things

1346
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:23,200
rather than having sort of a group think

1347
00:49:26,470 --> 00:49:25,520
and even as genteel as this group think

1348
00:49:28,790 --> 00:49:26,480
is

1349
00:49:32,390 --> 00:49:28,800
be what directs people

1350
00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:32,400
to a particular path and and so that's

1351
00:49:35,589 --> 00:49:33,599
the only thing i want to emphasize is i

1352
00:49:37,510 --> 00:49:35,599
like the idea that this is essentially a

1353
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:37,520
giant biotechnology project geared

1354
00:49:41,750 --> 00:49:39,280
towards making a living system that's

1355
00:49:44,150 --> 00:49:41,760
just my own view of it you can have

1356
00:49:46,309 --> 00:49:44,160
yours but if that if that resonates with

1357
00:49:49,510 --> 00:49:46,319
anybody then sure whatever gets us there

1358
00:49:54,069 --> 00:49:51,910
okay yeah i think we're all on agreement

1359
00:49:56,069 --> 00:49:54,079
with that uh one thing i think that

1360
00:49:57,910 --> 00:49:56,079
whatever the final document is i think

1361
00:49:59,270 --> 00:49:57,920
these discussions are very good because

1362
00:50:01,589 --> 00:49:59,280
it um

1363
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:01,599
you know it helps us i have to say that

1364
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:03,520
i never really thought about what is

1365
00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:06,720
functioned uh carefully i guess until i

1366
00:50:11,910 --> 00:50:09,599
until this morning and so um

1367
00:50:13,190 --> 00:50:11,920
i think this process is good for all of

1368
00:50:15,030 --> 00:50:13,200
us

1369
00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:15,040
okay uh

1370
00:50:18,150 --> 00:50:16,240
i'm going to the next page are we all

1371
00:50:19,109 --> 00:50:18,160
good on that

1372
00:50:22,549 --> 00:50:19,119
okay

1373
00:50:23,589 --> 00:50:22,559
all right so this is also out of the uh

1374
00:50:28,470 --> 00:50:23,599
um

1375
00:50:30,069 --> 00:50:28,480
uh

1376
00:50:32,150 --> 00:50:30,079
versus function and i have to say i

1377
00:50:34,790 --> 00:50:32,160
didn't really understand all of this i

1378
00:50:36,630 --> 00:50:34,800
just took it as it was um

1379
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:36,640
so let's just take a minute and read

1380
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:59,109
so

1381
00:51:02,549 --> 00:51:01,349
and here i confess i put iron in there

1382
00:51:04,230 --> 00:51:02,559
because that's my own work i'll take

1383
00:51:06,309 --> 00:51:04,240
that out i was just like i'm so

1384
00:51:09,190 --> 00:51:06,319
interesting

1385
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:09,200
i'll get that out i'm sorry

1386
00:51:29,829 --> 00:51:28,390
if david's on the call so david what do

1387
00:51:31,349 --> 00:51:29,839
you think about the question you know

1388
00:51:33,349 --> 00:51:31,359
what mathematical rules lead from

1389
00:51:35,670 --> 00:51:33,359
equilibrium to non-equilibrium catalysis

1390
00:51:37,510 --> 00:51:35,680
does that begin to sort of

1391
00:51:40,470 --> 00:51:37,520
deal with your questions regarding

1392
00:51:42,309 --> 00:51:40,480
equilibrium and kinetics of assembly

1393
00:51:43,270 --> 00:51:42,319
yeah can you hear me

1394
00:51:46,150 --> 00:51:43,280
yeah

1395
00:51:49,910 --> 00:51:46,160
this properly

1396
00:51:51,349 --> 00:51:49,920
uh it it gets there perhaps um it's

1397
00:51:54,069 --> 00:51:51,359
still a rather i mean that that

1398
00:51:55,510 --> 00:51:54,079
statement seems to me a little um

1399
00:51:57,589 --> 00:51:55,520
well it's just one statement one

1400
00:51:59,190 --> 00:51:57,599
sentence

1401
00:52:01,109 --> 00:51:59,200
the other thing i was i was gonna point

1402
00:52:02,950 --> 00:52:01,119
to that exact statement too and to say

1403
00:52:04,470 --> 00:52:02,960
what you had said about thermodynamics

1404
00:52:08,390 --> 00:52:04,480
and kinetics can you

1405
00:52:10,630 --> 00:52:08,400
replace mathematical rules with say

1406
00:52:12,910 --> 00:52:10,640
you know chemical rules you know and

1407
00:52:14,470 --> 00:52:12,920
then having in parentheses you know

1408
00:52:16,829 --> 00:52:14,480
thermodynamics

1409
00:52:19,030 --> 00:52:16,839
kinetics lead from equilibrium to

1410
00:52:21,510 --> 00:52:19,040
non-equilibrium catalysis or

1411
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:21,520
you know to function right but this is

1412
00:52:24,710 --> 00:52:22,720
one thing there

1413
00:52:26,710 --> 00:52:24,720
with um you know in the context of what

1414
00:52:28,230 --> 00:52:26,720
what andy's been saying i you know i

1415
00:52:29,829 --> 00:52:28,240
really agree with him

1416
00:52:32,309 --> 00:52:29,839
that we don't want to be restricted

1417
00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:32,319
because you know it's an understatement

1418
00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:35,040
to say that none of us and and even as a

1419
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:36,800
group that we have all the answers and

1420
00:52:41,430 --> 00:52:38,800
know what's coming in the next few years

1421
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:41,440
right that's that's for darn sure

1422
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:42,960
but yet you still want to give a

1423
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:45,119
document where you do have

1424
00:52:49,030 --> 00:52:47,520
you know maybe some useful things

1425
00:52:52,230 --> 00:52:49,040
in there to

1426
00:52:53,910 --> 00:52:52,240
you know help direct in some way such as

1427
00:52:55,829 --> 00:52:53,920
don't violate the second law of

1428
00:52:57,670 --> 00:52:55,839
thermodynamics right

1429
00:52:58,549 --> 00:52:57,680
that's a good start

1430
00:53:01,190 --> 00:52:58,559
you know

1431
00:53:03,270 --> 00:53:01,200
and i think that

1432
00:53:05,349 --> 00:53:03,280
what david wrote about

1433
00:53:07,030 --> 00:53:05,359
thermodynamics and kinetics i really

1434
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:07,040
like things like that because what

1435
00:53:11,349 --> 00:53:09,119
you're saying is you know we want to

1436
00:53:14,230 --> 00:53:11,359
know we want to understand how you go to

1437
00:53:16,069 --> 00:53:14,240
function but ultimately these are

1438
00:53:17,910 --> 00:53:16,079
chemicals these are molecules right so

1439
00:53:20,470 --> 00:53:17,920
they have to obey these rules of

1440
00:53:22,309 --> 00:53:20,480
chemistry right that's right this is

1441
00:53:23,829 --> 00:53:22,319
also where when you're talking about you

1442
00:53:26,870 --> 00:53:23,839
know it's got to be connected to

1443
00:53:29,670 --> 00:53:26,880
experiment okay yes but you could have a

1444
00:53:31,510 --> 00:53:29,680
theoretician that is putting in you know

1445
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:31,520
the kinetics and thermodynamics and then

1446
00:53:34,950 --> 00:53:33,680
defines these are the parameters in

1447
00:53:36,710 --> 00:53:34,960
chemical space that you should be

1448
00:53:38,950 --> 00:53:36,720
looking for and that could be very

1449
00:53:41,430 --> 00:53:38,960
useful but i think eventually you want

1450
00:53:43,670 --> 00:53:41,440
to guide people away from

1451
00:53:45,589 --> 00:53:43,680
you know being free of any of that where

1452
00:53:48,150 --> 00:53:45,599
it's just angle is the beagle of the c

1453
00:53:49,190 --> 00:53:48,160
and look i've made a hyper cycle right

1454
00:53:50,710 --> 00:53:49,200
you have to

1455
00:53:53,190 --> 00:53:50,720
you know

1456
00:53:54,870 --> 00:53:53,200
they don't work by the way but uh

1457
00:53:57,910 --> 00:53:54,880
yeah if one looks at it they look good

1458
00:54:02,390 --> 00:53:59,910
that's right the the foundation of all

1459
00:54:03,990 --> 00:54:02,400
of this it seems to me are the obviously

1460
00:54:05,829 --> 00:54:04,000
is is the

1461
00:54:08,230 --> 00:54:05,839
the thermodynamics and ultimately the

1462
00:54:10,390 --> 00:54:08,240
kinetics there are genetic limitations

1463
00:54:13,349 --> 00:54:10,400
there are diffusion limitations

1464
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:13,359
and those those issues are in my view

1465
00:54:17,990 --> 00:54:15,599
once again the foundation of all of this

1466
00:54:19,910 --> 00:54:18,000
and when you have aqueous media

1467
00:54:21,109 --> 00:54:19,920
you got i mean i

1468
00:54:23,589 --> 00:54:21,119
you know that

1469
00:54:25,510 --> 00:54:23,599
that presents a number of problems that

1470
00:54:27,349 --> 00:54:25,520
i think have to be dealt with have to be

1471
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:27,359
dealt with directly with people who

1472
00:54:30,870 --> 00:54:29,280
understand this sort of thing

1473
00:54:32,870 --> 00:54:30,880
yeah but i don't know i think that many

1474
00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:32,880
of this i have no i have no dog in this

1475
00:54:36,470 --> 00:54:34,800
fight this is just i want science right

1476
00:54:37,589 --> 00:54:36,480
that's my view here

1477
00:54:39,589 --> 00:54:37,599
but i think that's a that's a great

1478
00:54:41,990 --> 00:54:39,599
that's a great point if only because you

1479
00:54:42,790 --> 00:54:42,000
know a i think hyper cycles can work and

1480
00:54:45,589 --> 00:54:42,800
b

1481
00:54:48,069 --> 00:54:45,599
restricted conditions under which they

1482
00:54:49,589 --> 00:54:48,079
work and the intersection between you

1483
00:54:51,030 --> 00:54:49,599
know where hypocycles work and what

1484
00:54:53,190 --> 00:54:51,040
conditions they work under which may

1485
00:54:54,710 --> 00:54:53,200
very well be non-aqueous non-diffusion

1486
00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:54,720
or slow diffusion

1487
00:54:57,990 --> 00:54:55,920
conditions

1488
00:54:59,109 --> 00:54:58,000
is an interesting basic question could

1489
00:55:00,309 --> 00:54:59,119
be approached mathematically and

1490
00:55:01,750 --> 00:55:00,319
theoretically could potentially be

1491
00:55:03,589 --> 00:55:01,760
approached with should be approached

1492
00:55:06,150 --> 00:55:03,599
with experimental systems but i think

1493
00:55:07,670 --> 00:55:06,160
it's it's precisely the prejudices that

1494
00:55:10,069 --> 00:55:07,680
you that you suggest david which are

1495
00:55:11,990 --> 00:55:10,079
great prejudices that should guide us

1496
00:55:13,750 --> 00:55:12,000
but not but not limit us they should be

1497
00:55:15,829 --> 00:55:13,760
the basis for questions which is how

1498
00:55:17,829 --> 00:55:15,839
you've been posing them but but that's

1499
00:55:19,510 --> 00:55:17,839
that's why i've sort of been

1500
00:55:21,750 --> 00:55:19,520
pushing back just a little at a couple

1501
00:55:24,470 --> 00:55:21,760
of points it's like wow if anything

1502
00:55:27,109 --> 00:55:24,480
lauren's lauren's diagrams are too

1503
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:27,119
seductive um you know if we get away

1504
00:55:30,230 --> 00:55:28,880
from these seductive diagrams you know

1505
00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:30,240
what else what else is out there and how

1506
00:55:33,750 --> 00:55:32,160
can we state these more

1507
00:55:35,270 --> 00:55:33,760
hypothetical or abstract questions so

1508
00:55:38,390 --> 00:55:35,280
that we can get lauren's diagrams and

1509
00:55:39,829 --> 00:55:38,400
others as a as well and then get to as

1510
00:55:40,950 --> 00:55:39,839
nick was saying these these these neat

1511
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:40,960
questions about

1512
00:55:45,510 --> 00:55:43,680
well even if there was a a a an

1513
00:55:47,510 --> 00:55:45,520
experimental system or or something

1514
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:47,520
where we could imagine instantiation

1515
00:55:53,990 --> 00:55:49,680
what subset or what universe would that

1516
00:55:57,829 --> 00:55:55,910
i guess i would like to give a different

1517
00:56:00,069 --> 00:55:57,839
uh slightly different perspective on

1518
00:56:02,549 --> 00:56:00,079
this i i don't really see that the

1519
00:56:03,990 --> 00:56:02,559
mathematical rules uh are going to be

1520
00:56:05,190 --> 00:56:04,000
all that useful

1521
00:56:06,950 --> 00:56:05,200
i mean i understand you know the

1522
00:56:08,870 --> 00:56:06,960
fundamental basis of it but what we

1523
00:56:10,710 --> 00:56:08,880
really need is to address number two

1524
00:56:12,630 --> 00:56:10,720
there what functionalities are plausible

1525
00:56:14,789 --> 00:56:12,640
in realistic geological environments

1526
00:56:17,270 --> 00:56:14,799
which by definition are aqueous

1527
00:56:19,349 --> 00:56:17,280
environment or

1528
00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:19,359
sub-aerial you know surface environments

1529
00:56:23,910 --> 00:56:20,640
things of that sort

1530
00:56:25,430 --> 00:56:23,920
but i i mean to me this is uh i would

1531
00:56:27,109 --> 00:56:25,440
love to see this

1532
00:56:29,510 --> 00:56:27,119
document really emphasize the

1533
00:56:32,069 --> 00:56:29,520
experimentation and the connection to

1534
00:56:33,510 --> 00:56:32,079
the geological environment that's that's

1535
00:56:37,270 --> 00:56:33,520
where i see

1536
00:56:41,589 --> 00:56:38,950
well i'll get off in a moment i just

1537
00:56:44,230 --> 00:56:41,599
want to say that obviously the laws of

1538
00:56:46,150 --> 00:56:44,240
physics and chemistry ultimately are the

1539
00:56:48,390 --> 00:56:46,160
basis of all of this and

1540
00:56:50,549 --> 00:56:48,400
so some right but they don't they don't

1541
00:56:52,870 --> 00:56:50,559
get violated in an experiment why don't

1542
00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:52,880
they get violated by theoreticians of

1543
00:56:55,670 --> 00:56:54,400
course

1544
00:56:57,030 --> 00:56:55,680
right but you don't want to throw away

1545
00:56:59,109 --> 00:56:57,040
all theoreticians because if a

1546
00:57:01,750 --> 00:56:59,119
theoretician will keep themselves

1547
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:01,760
constrained to the physical world and

1548
00:57:05,510 --> 00:57:03,520
parameters and rules of chemistry they

1549
00:57:08,870 --> 00:57:05,520
might do something you know good and

1550
00:57:11,349 --> 00:57:08,880
show us the way as experimentals right

1551
00:57:13,829 --> 00:57:11,359
that's all right i tell you this i i am

1552
00:57:15,589 --> 00:57:13,839
primarily a theoretician so i'm just

1553
00:57:17,829 --> 00:57:15,599
telling you this

1554
00:57:19,829 --> 00:57:17,839
not uh trying to exclude myself from

1555
00:57:22,870 --> 00:57:19,839
this but uh i mean what's really been

1556
00:57:25,349 --> 00:57:22,880
lacking in this field is a connection to

1557
00:57:27,829 --> 00:57:25,359
the geology is a connection making the

1558
00:57:29,829 --> 00:57:27,839
connection between what organic chemists

1559
00:57:32,710 --> 00:57:29,839
think about in the lab which is rarely

1560
00:57:34,710 --> 00:57:32,720
to use an aqueous medium to what really

1561
00:57:36,710 --> 00:57:34,720
you can what you can actually do in an

1562
00:57:38,230 --> 00:57:36,720
aqueous geological environment i think

1563
00:57:40,470 --> 00:57:38,240
that's something that's been

1564
00:57:41,750 --> 00:57:40,480
sorely lacking in this in this area

1565
00:57:44,870 --> 00:57:41,760
especially when you look at the

1566
00:57:47,109 --> 00:57:44,880
development of function as uh you know

1567
00:57:49,589 --> 00:57:47,119
lauren's initial list that sort of

1568
00:57:51,670 --> 00:57:49,599
progression of complexity i think i i

1569
00:57:52,630 --> 00:57:51,680
don't see anybody doing that and it's i

1570
00:57:56,549 --> 00:57:52,640
think

1571
00:57:58,549 --> 00:57:56,559
should be emphasized

1572
00:58:01,190 --> 00:57:58,559
the notion of a seductive figure is

1573
00:58:03,109 --> 00:58:01,200
something that uh

1574
00:58:04,950 --> 00:58:03,119
this kind of makes seductive figures

1575
00:58:08,710 --> 00:58:04,960
that's true yeah yeah

1576
00:58:15,190 --> 00:58:11,190
at this point and say we're down to our

1577
00:58:17,109 --> 00:58:15,200
last two or three minutes okay

1578
00:58:19,349 --> 00:58:17,119
are there any key points that you want

1579
00:58:21,829 --> 00:58:19,359
to cover in that remaining time i would

1580
00:58:23,990 --> 00:58:21,839
like to at least uh we have one more

1581
00:58:26,150 --> 00:58:24,000
slide let's at least try to get to it

1582
00:58:29,030 --> 00:58:26,160
that would be a good thing to do

1583
00:58:31,670 --> 00:58:29,040
um so this is um

1584
00:58:59,589 --> 00:58:31,680
uh the the next slide maybe just takes i

1585
00:59:03,190 --> 00:59:01,910
okay so i'm going to assume so

1586
00:59:04,630 --> 00:59:03,200
is there anything here that that

1587
00:59:07,910 --> 00:59:04,640
somebody really wants

1588
00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:07,920
uh has a burning opinion about

1589
00:59:14,230 --> 00:59:12,789
okay uh let me just say that it was when

1590
00:59:15,349 --> 00:59:14,240
i read this page that i thought wow we

1591
00:59:17,510 --> 00:59:15,359
really got to think about what does

1592
00:59:18,870 --> 00:59:17,520
function mean

1593
00:59:21,430 --> 00:59:18,880
and

1594
00:59:22,870 --> 00:59:21,440
this

1595
00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:22,880
session has been really good at defining

1596
00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:24,240
that i'm gonna i'm gonna listen to this

1597
00:59:28,150 --> 00:59:25,920
again and and sort of write down some

1598
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:28,160
notes that we can put in i think we can

1599
00:59:32,950 --> 00:59:30,480
come up with a

1600
00:59:34,390 --> 00:59:32,960
um some kind of uh definition of

1601
00:59:35,829 --> 00:59:34,400
function whether that goes in the final

1602
00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:35,839
document or not i don't know but at

1603
00:59:39,430 --> 00:59:37,520
least it would make me feel good to try

1604
00:59:41,109 --> 00:59:39,440
to write something down

1605
00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:41,119
um

1606
00:59:44,230 --> 00:59:42,240
and then

1607
00:59:46,870 --> 00:59:44,240
i guess the other thing is that

1608
00:59:48,710 --> 00:59:46,880
i want to stress to everybody is that we

1609
00:59:51,829 --> 00:59:48,720
i think nasa does a really good job of

1610
00:59:53,829 --> 00:59:51,839
trying to get everybody involved and um

1611
00:59:55,990 --> 00:59:53,839
this process is really open and

1612
00:59:59,750 --> 00:59:56,000
hopefully all of us can work

1613
01:00:01,430 --> 00:59:59,760
on this and and um have because i mean

1614
01:00:03,829 --> 01:00:01,440
our community here

1615
01:00:05,109 --> 01:00:03,839
needs to be well represented in the

1616
01:00:07,349 --> 01:00:05,119
roadmap

1617
01:00:10,150 --> 01:00:07,359
and we need to do a good job on this

1618
01:00:13,109 --> 01:00:10,160
process in order to have that

1619
01:00:18,870 --> 01:00:16,069
okay thank you can i actually andy just

1620
01:00:20,470 --> 01:00:18,880
wanted to say one quick thing um what i

1621
01:00:22,230 --> 01:00:20,480
was gonna say is there seems to be a lot

1622
01:00:24,549 --> 01:00:22,240
of great discussion that has gone on

1623
01:00:26,870 --> 01:00:24,559
today and it seems like um there there

1624
01:00:29,109 --> 01:00:26,880
are a lot of people who have um some

1625
01:00:31,030 --> 01:00:29,119
great ideas to put into this so

1626
01:00:33,829 --> 01:00:31,040
lauren it's up to you lauren irene other

1627
01:00:36,309 --> 01:00:33,839
authors of this paper um if you guys i

1628
01:00:38,950 --> 01:00:36,319
mean some of the other groups have had

1629
01:00:40,710 --> 01:00:38,960
um independent google hangouts or

1630
01:00:42,789 --> 01:00:40,720
conference calls where they have

1631
01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:42,799
actually you know that you don't have to

1632
01:00:47,349 --> 01:00:45,359
do this all um through the commenting on

1633
01:00:49,349 --> 01:00:47,359
the website on the google docs if you

1634
01:00:51,829 --> 01:00:49,359
want um if you feel like you would

1635
01:00:53,589 --> 01:00:51,839
benefit from you know doing some of this

1636
01:00:55,270 --> 01:00:53,599
offline having a discussion you know

1637
01:00:57,349 --> 01:00:55,280
that you guys want to do

1638
01:00:59,109 --> 01:00:57,359
however and whenever you want

1639
01:01:01,430 --> 01:00:59,119
and then bringing it back together and

1640
01:01:03,430 --> 01:01:01,440
putting it into the white paper um

1641
01:01:05,510 --> 01:01:03,440
that's fine too

1642
01:01:06,309 --> 01:01:05,520
however you guys feel works best for you

1643
01:01:07,510 --> 01:01:06,319
guys

1644
01:01:09,030 --> 01:01:07,520
go for it

1645
01:01:10,470 --> 01:01:09,040
we want to get you know we want to get

1646
01:01:12,549 --> 01:01:10,480
all these great ideas incorporated

1647
01:01:14,069 --> 01:01:12,559
however however that works

1648
01:01:16,230 --> 01:01:14,079
so thanks andy

1649
01:01:18,230 --> 01:01:16,240
can we get a list of all the email

1650
01:01:20,390 --> 01:01:18,240
addresses of everybody who has been

1651
01:01:21,910 --> 01:01:20,400
online here i have most of them i'm

1652
01:01:25,349 --> 01:01:21,920
seeing but i'm not sure i have all of

1653
01:01:29,270 --> 01:01:27,910
maybe the best way for that to be

1654
01:01:30,069 --> 01:01:29,280
actually i don't know you'll have to ask

1655
01:01:32,789 --> 01:01:30,079
mike

1656
01:01:34,150 --> 01:01:32,799
um the host if there's a way to do that

1657
01:01:35,589 --> 01:01:34,160
but one of the best ways you might do

1658
01:01:36,870 --> 01:01:35,599
would be do you want me to type your

1659
01:01:39,030 --> 01:01:36,880
email address or i don't know if you

1660
01:01:41,430 --> 01:01:39,040
have that way to type this into the chat

1661
01:01:43,589 --> 01:01:41,440
and that way anybody who wants to

1662
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:43,599
um be a part of this group can just

1663
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:45,760
email you directly

1664
01:01:49,109 --> 01:01:47,280
i was also thinking that anybody that's

1665
01:01:50,950 --> 01:01:49,119
on right now they can type their emails

1666
01:01:53,270 --> 01:01:50,960
into the chat yeah

1667
01:01:54,950 --> 01:01:53,280
right yep that too

1668
01:01:57,190 --> 01:01:54,960
if everybody just did that right now

1669
01:01:58,710 --> 01:01:57,200
then lauren would have that this is i'm

1670
01:02:02,230 --> 01:01:58,720
gonna do that

1671
01:02:04,829 --> 01:02:02,240
yeah um okay so there's mine

1672
01:02:07,270 --> 01:02:04,839
did i get it right yes

1673
01:02:09,670 --> 01:02:07,280
okay yeah that's great then they're all

1674
01:02:12,230 --> 01:02:09,680
showing out what's going on that's great

1675
01:02:15,190 --> 01:02:12,240
there's got a record on there good

1676
01:02:17,030 --> 01:02:15,200
okay so just by way of wrapping up and

1677
01:02:18,630 --> 01:02:17,040
because i know there are several people

1678
01:02:22,230 --> 01:02:18,640
here who haven't been through the

1679
01:02:23,589 --> 01:02:22,240
process of commenting on the document a

1680
01:02:26,230 --> 01:02:23,599
couple of thoughts

1681
01:02:28,789 --> 01:02:26,240
if any of the authors or anyone else

1682
01:02:30,789 --> 01:02:28,799
involved in this would like to organize

1683
01:02:32,789 --> 01:02:30,799
a google hangout or

1684
01:02:33,670 --> 01:02:32,799
some other kind of meeting and they need

1685
01:02:36,549 --> 01:02:33,680
help

1686
01:02:38,470 --> 01:02:36,559
just email us support at no innovation

1687
01:02:40,549 --> 01:02:38,480
if you need any help on that we'll

1688
01:02:42,870 --> 01:02:40,559
gladly help to organize that the

1689
01:02:46,630 --> 01:02:42,880
document itself is now open for

1690
01:02:49,190 --> 01:02:46,640
commenting what we ask you to do is you

1691
01:02:51,430 --> 01:02:49,200
go to the document to add a comment you

1692
01:02:53,430 --> 01:02:51,440
simply highlight the thing you want to

1693
01:02:56,069 --> 01:02:53,440
comment on a right click and you'll find

1694
01:02:58,309 --> 01:02:56,079
you can add a comment it is really

1695
01:03:01,030 --> 01:02:58,319
helpful though if you can log into your

1696
01:03:02,630 --> 01:03:01,040
google account first just so it's got

1697
01:03:05,270 --> 01:03:02,640
your name on it because it makes it

1698
01:03:07,030 --> 01:03:05,280
easier for for people to get back to you

1699
01:03:07,829 --> 01:03:07,040
etc um

1700
01:03:09,589 --> 01:03:07,839
so

1701
01:03:11,589 --> 01:03:09,599
by all means we can help you organize

1702
01:03:14,710 --> 01:03:11,599
other meetings documents open for

1703
01:03:16,309 --> 01:03:14,720
commenting everyone who wanted to looks

1704
01:03:17,270 --> 01:03:16,319
like they have typed in their email

1705
01:03:19,589 --> 01:03:17,280
address

1706
01:03:23,029 --> 01:03:19,599
fantastic thank you very much there's

1707
01:03:24,950 --> 01:03:23,039
another one tomorrow same time um

1708
01:03:26,789 --> 01:03:24,960
please i think it's basically gonna all

1709
01:03:28,630 --> 01:03:26,799
in some ways be a continuation of this

1710
01:03:30,069 --> 01:03:28,640
session maybe

1711
01:03:32,069 --> 01:03:30,079
i guess so i'm not really sure but i

1712
01:03:34,069 --> 01:03:32,079
think it might be

1713
01:03:35,750 --> 01:03:34,079
all right until tomorrow cheering